Question For the American President – What did your Nuclear Submarines leave at the Bottom of the Holy Loch That Needs to Be left Undisturbed For Ever?









2017: CIA files: US & Soviet nuclear sub crash off Scotland ‘could have sparked global war’

Newly declassified CIA files indicate that a US submarine laden with 160 warheads collided with a Soviet vessel off the coast of Scotland in 1974. Experts say it could easily have caused nuclear war.

The files seem to confirm the long-rumoured Cold War incident occurred near Holy Loch, Argyll, where the US once had a permanent nuclear base. Chillingly, the crash took place just 30 miles (48km) off the coast of Glasgow.

While the US never officially confirmed the crash had taken place, the documents show it was reported at the highest levels at the time in a memo to Henry Kissinger – then secretary of state to President Gerald Ford – on November 3, 1974.





The memo, seen by the Times, told Kissinger: “Have just received word from the Pentagon that one of our Poseidon submarines has just collided with a Soviet submarine.

The SSBN James Madison was departing Holy Loch to take up station when it collided with a Soviet submarine waiting outside the port to take up trail.

Both submarines surfaced and the Soviet boat subsequently submerged again. There is no report yet of the extent of damage. Will keep you posted,” the message assured Kissinger.

Experts said that in the confusion of the collision it is perfectly feasible a war could have been sparked.

The James Madison was a ballistic missile submarine armed with 16 Poseidon missiles with 160 nuclear warheads,” nuclear weapons expert Hans Kristensen told the Times.

In the worst case scenario, the collision could have triggered explosions that ignited the ballistic missile fuel and ejected or destroyed the warheads, said Kristensen.

There was also a clear possibility for a war “if the crew on one of the submarines had misinterpreted the collision as an attack and decided to defend itself and sink the other submarine,” he added.

The revelation comes just days after it emerged a British test-fired Trident missile veered off course towards Florida during an exercise in June 2016.






The Holy Loch A Local Reports On The UK Government  Red Herring

The Scottish press advised the public that resources would be deployed, (long after the US navy had gone)  to clear debris left on the bottom of the loch by US nuclear submarine maintenance.


But they were looking for something else in the Holy Loch and they soon found it. Their fleet of cleaning ships left suddenly after a few days.

Earlier, in the course of a conversation with the local media a previous US base commander had strongly advised that they should support calls for the sea bed to be left alone after the US submarines had gone.

Some time after all shellfish in or around the Holy Loch died suddenly for no apparent reason.

Strangely the sea bed in Rothesay Bay is probably more of a midden than the Holy Loch due to the many years it was a naval base but there has never been a suggestion that it needed cleaning up.

The incidence of Non-Hodgkins Lymphoma and other leukaemia’s and cancers around the Holy Loch in the last two decades is reported to be three times the national incidence.

The BBC made a film called “Tin Fish” starring Emma Thompson on the Holy Loch (written I think by Paul Murton from this area whose brother died very young of leukaemia) which dealt with the cancer threat of nuclear submarine bases but the the entire political content of the film was edited out before it was broadcast.

I know. all of this because the hotel I owned was the base used for the film






Is their a Sunken Nuclear Submarine or Some Other Nuclear Debris Resting at the bottom of the Holy Loch

Frightening . One wonders what is lying at the bottom of the lochs near-hand the Clyde.

I used to visit Rothesay as a young lad. My memories are of a paradise.

The water was a clear blue and we played happily in it for many hours in the course of the day.

A walk along the shore was an adventure there was an abundance of sea life to wonder at and collect for eating later.

Today the island is a very sad place having been on the receiving end of a constant battering for the last 50 years.

The environment might never recover from the excesses of the military occupation of the lochs and ports.

What is sad is that the Scottish public will not exercise their vote and bring about independence and it is only that which will guarantee our children a future free of the aftermath of nuclear weaponry even it remains unused.







November 1985 Hansard: Nuclear Defence Installations: Cancer Incidences

Question: To ask Her Majesty’s Government: Whether they are aware of reports that:

(i) in the vicinity of the US submarine base at Holy Loch, the cancer rate among under 25s is three times the Scottish average.

(ii) in the vicinity of Rosyth where Polaris submarines are refitted, leukaemia in under 15s is three times the Scottish average

(iii) there is an exceptionally high rate of cleft palate and hare lip among children of crewmen of the first Polaris submarine “Resolution”; and whether they will initiate public inquiries in any of these cases.

Answer: The Government are aware of the reports to which the noble Lord has referred and will consider any relevant information put to them relating to the incidence of cancer or hereditary conditions in these areas






In 1978 high levels of Cobalt-60 were discovered in Holy Loch.

On 20/6/85 two lorries carrying Polaris warheads collided at Helensburgh.

There is a high incidence of fires and mishaps at both Coulport and Faslane and the frequent use of fire engines and other emergency vehicles.

There are known leaks of radiation from working submarines (for instance from a Polaris submarine on patrol in June 1994) and there are the known accidents, leaks and routine venting of radioactive materials that occurs in the nuclear reactors that provide materials for the subs, for instance the tritium discharges at Chapelcross.

There are quite a few incidents of bombs being dropped whilst being hoisted into position. To take just one, in 1981 at the Holy Loch, a Poseidon missile containing 10 warheads was being winched into the submarine USS Holland when the winch ran free and the missile fell 17 feet and smashed into the side of the USS Los Angeles. Detonation of the warhead trigger system, which very luckily did not occur this time, could have dispersed plutonium dust as far as the centre of Glasgow


Holy Loch 5




Nuclear Link That Radiates Real Fear

Near the US nuclear submarine base at Holy Loch, it has been found that at Dunoon and the loch-side villages the death rate from cancer among people under 25 is three times the Scottish average, and the death rate from leukaemia among children under 15 is over five times the Scottish average. Another survey conducted among the families of officers and men who had served on nuclear submarines found an unusually high proportion of children borne by their wives after such service had a cleft palate or hare-lip.

Radiation kills, maims, and causes unquantifiable genetic damage. It is impossible for the nuclear industry or the Government to sustain any longer their claim that child cancers around nuclear sites is just coincidence. And, for that reason alone, the extension of nuclear power is an unacceptable price to pay in damaging and painfully killing increasing numbers of people.

Michael Meacher Minister of State, Labour governments





More on the Story of Faslane





27 thoughts on “Question For the American President – What did your Nuclear Submarines leave at the Bottom of the Holy Loch That Needs to Be left Undisturbed For Ever?

  1. Just another instance of Scotland being used as a nuclear midden by the American military and our own secretive bastards


    1. Dumbass we are. Providing US forces unfettered access to our beautiful country and allowing them to leave it cluttered with nuclear waste and other toxic chemicals is crass stupidity


    2. Would take offence to that daft comment if we were Brits. We’re Scottish Sam (not British), you guys are still hopeless at geography. Can’t even negotiate yer way out of the River Clyde without crashing into the enemy. Lol. Superpower? Super stupid.


    3. Lol! Another yank who doesn’t know the Russians won WWII. We have them to thank for keep us from speaking German.


    4. America winning a war obviously they get taught a very different history from everyone else.Charlie don’t surf but he kicked your ass right out of their country and your troops are hell of good at shooting allied troops in the back


    5. Check you out.Useless idiot.It’d be better that than the criminal gangs that you and Westminster are now and as for the war it wasn’t fekn you helped that joined us.If it wasn’t for the Scots All technology would be about years behind what it is now.We started the industrial revolution etc.Your country wouldn’t have expanded so early without our inventions.What have you lot invented? You lot were still sitting around campfires drinking filthy water,eating beans and humping each other then picking the lice of yourselves.Ignorant bstrd.

      Liked by 1 person

    1. The article addresses the Holy Loch which is well clear of Faslane. There are other articles on my blog that deal with the wider aspects of basing submarines in the West of Scotland deep sea lochs


  2. Apparently nobody remembers the time the Greenpeace trawler, Moby Dick, tried to enter both Faslane and the Holy Loch. The MND zodiacs negated the Greenpeace zodiacs and pushed the Moby Dick clear of the loch. They were allowed to take water samples of the water around the area of the tender and drydock, but unfortunately for them the waters in the Loch were less radioactive than the waters in the Firth of Clyde. Seems the distilled waters used by the subs for cooling were diluting the naturally occurring radioactivity in the waters of the Loch.
    Surprising that this is always ignored by those who are anti- anything.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. This article has a number on inaccuracies. I served on the James Madison after this date so it absolutely didn’t sink even if there was a collision which I doubt. The article says a missile was being loaded into the USS Los Angeles when it dropped except the Los Angeles was a fast attack and would not have been taking on a missile.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. The idea that a collision could spark ww3 is nonsense. No submariner in his right mind is going to ram another one underwater as an attack or think that the other would do it either. Having said that it was likely rhe russians who caused it by getting to close as the American sub was busy trying to get on with its patrol.

    Liked by 1 person

  5. If there was a collision the location is definitely wrong. All submarines then and now leave the Holy Loch, Faslane, and Coulport on the surface. Yesterday for instance I watched the arrival of an Astute class vessel escorted by Royal Marines in multiple very fast patrol boats, the MOD Police in two boats and three Serco Denholm tugs. I have lived in this area all of my life and have never seen a submarine of any nationality surface or submerge on the Clyde.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Once fishing from a boat just off the wee cumbrae,when a sub came to the surface very quick and was only about 200m away from our fishing boat. Few mins later it submerge again.


    2. Exactly. The US submarine snagged the Russian submarine forcing it to surface briefly. Having ascertained damage was minimal the Russian submarine submerged again and went on its way.


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